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Elloa
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PostSubject: Rogue   Sun 20 Aug - 12:39

Rogue

This thread can be used to write different advice, technique etc..about this class.

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Mist
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PostSubject: Rogues! <3   Wed 23 Aug - 18:01

Soo, I'm just gonna ask this before I begin writing a mass post..

Ya interested in my views on different rogue builds, and want me to share my epxerience, or just bugger off?

><
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Drakonis
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Wed 23 Aug - 18:57

*assasina bows*

allmighty rogue master, share your wide knowledge of rogue abilities, i beg of you.

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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Wed 6 Sep - 9:19

Mist, I'm still waiting for your almighty post about rogue stuff...hurry it up!

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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Wed 6 Sep - 9:31

Oh, I took your post as sarcasm!

I've already begun working on something so I suppose it won't take long (hopefully) before I can post it here..
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Wed 6 Sep - 10:42

hehe...you'll notice when i act sarcastic...muhahaaa....

but yeh, im really interested in knowing about rogues, since i got an alt rogue as all know....and i'd like to do it good....

only thing i do know is that im taking preperation in sublety..

and then head to assasination for the rest....got full imp sap, and full ambush....gotta respecc, did some points wrong....

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Mist
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Thu 28 Sep - 15:39

-deleted-


Last edited by on Thu 28 Sep - 18:01; edited 1 time in total
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Adora
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Thu 28 Sep - 16:16

- Post say byebye -


Last edited by on Sun 8 Oct - 19:06; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Thu 28 Sep - 16:34

Adora wrote:
Mist wrote:
...
Mages - Another classical "anti-rogue" class, these wielders of the arcane.. My prefered tactic against these Ice Block poppers and Pyroblast nukers is to sneak up to them and activate sprint (in stealth, yes), use Premeditation on the Mage, Cheap Shot, and here is the "turning" point in the fight because anyone that has PvP'ed at all knows that Mages just loooooooooooove to Blink out of your lovely stunlocks, but this Mage is up for a surprise! Because since you have foreseen that he will Blink, you simply Sprint up to some fifteen yards infront of the Mage, wait for him to Blink right into your waiting arms and unleash your five point Kidney Shot! From there it's usually a simple matter of Backstab, Hemorrhage, Gouge, Backstab, Eviscerate.. An alternative method is to use Ambush instead of Cheap Shot, it's a bit more risky (since you don't know 100% what the Mage will do) but makes the fight considerably shorter..

Counters? - As the Mage, a good way to counter these evil evil stunlocking Rogues is to hold down your right mouse button and draw the screen around to the left, right, or back (just as you would when turning your character, with the exception that your character doesn't turn, cause it's stunned) and then Blink, so you get the Rogue out of balance.. Rank 1 Frostbolts are fast, but still slow the Rogue down, and Ice Block is as always a very nice counter against Blind (but just remember to cut the Ice Block short, so the Rogue doesn't restealth)..
One thing I always do (with my rogue of course) - and this will totally destroy the counter that you provided - is to Cheap Shot and immediately Gouge... if it's a bad Mage you kill him fast no matter what you do, but just in case it's a good one this tactic will make him Blink and land gouged... and where ever he lands you have rougly 5 seconds to locate him, which I think is more than enough. Cool

Just a filler... the entire guide was excellent. I would put my comments on every class, but I don't have the time right now and I really don't see anything that I could improve that much really to be honest.

Ofcourse I also do that, but it's not a "valid" tactic in the matter that it won't rely on skill, more if the lag is on your side.. And as said, these are tactics that are quite unique to MY spec..

As a Vigor Rogue your best bet against a Mage is to Ambush, Gouge, Backstab, get Nova'd, Vanish, Ambush, Cold Blood Evisc - one dead Mage..
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Thu 28 Sep - 17:16

- This little pinky went to the market -


Last edited by on Sun 8 Oct - 19:06; edited 1 time in total
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Mist
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Thu 28 Sep - 18:01

*shrug* whatever
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Adora
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Thu 28 Sep - 20:15

*sigh* Taking it the wrong way....
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Mist
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Fri 29 Sep - 11:02

Adora wrote:
*sigh* Taking it the wrong way....

That's exactly what I'm not doing..
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Fri 29 Sep - 13:43

Pheww.. Smile
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Damin Truhseeker
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Wed 4 Oct - 20:41

Chould someone post a good dagger build? Smile
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Adora
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Wed 4 Oct - 21:36

This is the dagger build I use on my NE rogue. It's a version of the Hemo build. The thing with this one is that it's made to make most out of stunlocking and not one or two shooting clothies, hence no TP's in increase crit. chance from behind, Ambush or BS. The damage burst will instead come from Eviscerate mainly, using Hemorrage or SS to build CP's.

SnD is there to give the build some PvE-ability.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhecoxzZGZxMe0chRo
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Damin Truhseeker
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Wed 4 Oct - 21:58

Thank you Smile That looks good! I think I try that build.
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Mist
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Sun 8 Oct - 6:01

Adora wrote:
This is the dagger build I use on my NE rogue. It's a version of the Hemo build. The thing with this one is that it's made to make most out of stunlocking and not one or two shooting clothies, hence no TP's in increase crit. chance from behind, Ambush or BS. The damage burst will instead come from Eviscerate mainly, using Hemorrage or SS to build CP's.

SnD is there to give the build some PvE-ability.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhecoxzZGZxMe0chRo

I don't actually see that being a dagger build, there's absolutely NO dagger talents in it what-so-ever.. Except for Lethality, which is only viable with having Imp Backstab..

It's basically a nerfed Hemo/Sword/Mace/Fist build, with some misplaced points (Improved Sinister Strike, wtf? You're using Hemo instead of SS, why waste 2 points on something you won't use?)..

Umm, NEEXT!
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Sun 8 Oct - 8:23

Mist wrote:
I don't actually see that being a dagger build, there's absolutely NO dagger talents in it what-so-ever.
Yes.. you are right.

So, perhaps not a dagger build... but it works best with daggers imho because that will open up all the main characteristics of the rogue class, giving you more freedom of choice regarding openers. Basically, yes I'll say it again, you are right, it's not a dagger build per say, more of a survivability build.

Sorry... Embarassed
I take it back Shamir, it's not a dagger build.
Mist wrote:
Except for Lethality, which is only viable with having Imp Backstab..
I will just not say anything here, don't want to have an argument because of a simple thing as a difference in opinion.
Mist wrote:
It's basically a nerfed Hemo/Sword/Mace/Fist build, with some misplaced points (Improved Sinister Strike, wtf? You're using Hemo instead of SS, why waste 2 points on something you won't use?)..

Umm, NEEXT!
Imroved Sinister Strike, ah yes.. firstly, I never said I used it "instead of" anything, infact I even said "Hemorrage or SS". But you are right, I did have in mind that one was supposed to use it "instead of" SS in PvP, and here's where the "secondly" come into play... secondly, ever heard of PvE? Not very lightly that you'll be standing behind an Elite mob building CP's with Hemo now would you? Huge loss in DPS if you did. Even with the extra cost of 5 energy per SS (with the talents ofc) compared to Hemo's energy cost it would come out more DPS with SS in PvE.


I am sorry I ever said anything about your guide. Because after that you seem to think I am some wise-ass that don't know jack shit about your precious class and you'll do anything to try and prove that to the world.


Re-re-re-rewind...

Your guide is very good. No flaws what-so-ever.

There, everybody's happy.



(Tired and cranky, but I won't blame it on that... as this is mainly how I would write it anyway... with some smaller exceptions.)

EDIT: What you seem to have missed is that I respect you very much and know that you are very competent when it comes to playing Rogue, and thus it's not very fun to have you jump on me whatever I say and start pointing out what you think is the errors.
To be frank, I didn't like the way you presented your "corrections"... it was arrogant, offensive and could have been hurtful if I was that kind of person that gets hurt by words. What I mean is that you basically told everyone that "this is the ultimate truth and thus Adora wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong.. and stupid".

PS. I am sorry if I did or do offend you in any way with my opinions. Please tell me if this is the case so that I might learn from my mistakes and become a better person. DS.

Love
/Adora
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Mist
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Sun 8 Oct - 17:14

Adora wrote:
Mist wrote:
I don't actually see that being a dagger build, there's absolutely NO dagger talents in it what-so-ever.
Yes.. you are right.

So, perhaps not a dagger build... but it works best with daggers imho because that will open up all the main characteristics of the rogue class, giving you more freedom of choice regarding openers. Basically, yes I'll say it again, you are right, it's not a dagger build per say, more of a survivability build.

Sorry... Embarassed
I take it back Shamir, it's not a dagger build.
Mist wrote:
Except for Lethality, which is only viable with having Imp Backstab..
I will just not say anything here, don't want to have an argument because of a simple thing as a difference in opinion.
Mist wrote:
It's basically a nerfed Hemo/Sword/Mace/Fist build, with some misplaced points (Improved Sinister Strike, wtf? You're using Hemo instead of SS, why waste 2 points on something you won't use?)..

Umm, NEEXT!
Imroved Sinister Strike, ah yes.. firstly, I never said I used it "instead of" anything, infact I even said "Hemorrage or SS". But you are right, I did have in mind that one was supposed to use it "instead of" SS in PvP, and here's where the "secondly" come into play... secondly, ever heard of PvE? Not very lightly that you'll be standing behind an Elite mob building CP's with Hemo now would you? Huge loss in DPS if you did. Even with the extra cost of 5 energy per SS (with the talents ofc) compared to Hemo's energy cost it would come out more DPS with SS in PvE.


I am sorry I ever said anything about your guide. Because after that you seem to think I am some wise-ass that don't know jack shit about your precious class and you'll do anything to try and prove that to the world.


Re-re-re-rewind...

Your guide is very good. No flaws what-so-ever.

There, everybody's happy.



(Tired and cranky, but I won't blame it on that... as this is mainly how I would write it anyway... with some smaller exceptions.)

EDIT: What you seem to have missed is that I respect you very much and know that you are very competent when it comes to playing Rogue, and thus it's not very fun to have you jump on me whatever I say and start pointing out what you think is the errors.
To be frank, I didn't like the way you presented your "corrections"... it was arrogant, offensive and could have been hurtful if I was that kind of person that gets hurt by words. What I mean is that you basically told everyone that "this is the ultimate truth and thus Adora wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong.. and stupid".

PS. I am sorry if I did or do offend you in any way with my opinions. Please tell me if this is the case so that I might learn from my mistakes and become a better person. DS.

Love
/Adora

I'm merely trying to point out the flaws in what you say, but apparently you still seem to have missed great parts of the whole "Hemorrhage thing"..

For example, Hemo in itself does NON-NORMALIZED weapon damage, that means, that a slow weapon (as my current http://www.wowhead.com/?item=21715) CAN and WILL outdamage Sinister Strike in time..

Secondly, the Hemorrhage debuff adds seven(7) more damage to each physical attack done to that target for thirty charges
US Rogue Forums Sticky wrote:
The +7 damage debuff from Hemorrhage has limited raid utility. It helps your raid's physical DPS do 7 more damage per hit, and 14 more damage per critical hit up to 30 times before the Hemorrhage debuff wears off. Depending on talents and damage modifiers, the damage increase from Hemorrhage can be increased by that amount. Examples include Opportunity's 20%, Lethality's 30% crit addition, etc. Other classes' modifiers count as well. The rule of thumb when trying to find out if an ability affects Hemorrhage added damage is that if Weapon Damage is affected by the ability, the added damage from Hemorrhage will also be affected by that ability. It is also wise to remember that the added damage is affected by armor.

Some simple math - in a raid environment most physical dealing characters have approximately 25-30% to crit, and about 85% of those have talents as Lethality (Lethal Shots, Impale to name a few)..

Soooo, 30% of 30 is 10, 10*14 equals 140 (notice, no talent multiplier added yet), 20*7 equals 140 also, 140*1,25 equals 175 (the critted attacks with a 25% more damage bonus added)

140+175 equals 315, so if you always wait out your Hemo debuff, your Hemorrhage move in a raid environment does non-normalized weapon damage + 315, a bit more than SS, aint it? Although I can myself, as a Hemo Rogue that frequently raids, say that you almost never wait the debuff out before doing another Hemo, it just lowers your personal DPS too much.. But a flat 150 more damage is not impossible that it adds..

Note: I have an average of 270-290 personal dps in a raid, as the epeen meters don't count in the extra damage from Hemo, and seeing as I do a Hemo every third second perhaps, it "should" be something like 290+50= 340, which brings me on par with the Vigor and Combat/Sword rogues..

Having these things in mind, Hemorrhage is not viable (as your main move) with daggers, it can however work very well as a "CP builder"..

Another thing about the Hemo-spec, which is not about the Hemorrhage move is that Ghostly Strike ALSO does non-normalized weapon damage, which makes it a low energy move with a fun buff and some crazy damage (I crit Ghostly Strike for about 800 on cloth, however I have 1028 as my highest ever :> ).

But let's not turn this into a flame-war, my reason for removing the "very flawed" guide was that it was accused of lacking something that depends on your luck with lag, and should therefore not be something that you use "everyday"..

Oh, and about Lethality, YES in a "dagger-build" it is only viable with Imp Backstab, but then again, no dagger build "can" be without Imp Backstab.. For the record, Opportunity bonus damage is added BEFORE every other multiplier, that means that Opportunity will add more to your Backstab move than Lethality, even when it crits..

Although in no way I don't like Lethality, it's pure wub <3


Mist over and out..

Edit: added the Hemo calculation..

PS. No written word can hurt me, not from someone I don't know, atleast.. That's the very reason that makes me able to put everything this bluntly, because it's the best way to open up some eyes, be it painfull or not.. DS
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Sun 8 Oct - 19:04

See, now this I liked. I got pwned without feeling like a idiot. Razz


Why remove it? scratch

And I never meant to imply that it was flawed, I liked it very much... that's what I've been trying to say.

So, please... get it up there again, people will have use of it.
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Mist
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Sun 8 Oct - 19:11

Adora wrote:
See, now this I liked. I got pwned without feeling like a idiot. Razz


Why remove it? scratch

And I never meant to imply that it was flawed, I liked it very much... that's what I've been trying to say.

So, please... get it up there again, people will have use of it.

So that means the war ends there?

DOH >.<

<.< I'll get it up there again, I'll just wait until I can be arsed xD
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Wed 22 Nov - 10:14

would this build be any good?

I like Preperation, so thats what made me chose for it, stead of Mutilate.
http://www.wow-europe.com/en/info/underdev/burningcrusade/rogue/talents.html?2053001052311125112100200000000000000000000005500031303021000000000

me like's.....

its for TBC, as you can see...so... come on, comments...

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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Wed 22 Nov - 13:39

Question: Why is Mist trying to cause an arguement and makes his/her points far too bluntly and seemingly without understanding?
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PostSubject: Re: Rogue   Wed 22 Nov - 16:22

That "argument/fight thingie" was in the start of october>.>
Is Tyl bored? xD
But i guess she was having a bad day?

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